Went and checked this out today

"BJohnson11" (brettjohnson01) 08/28/2013 at 22:57 • Filed to: None

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74 Chevy Shortbed Fleetside. It's a Cheyenne Supreme too. Original owner, but with some new parts. The guy has soo many receipts for it too. It's got a reman 454 that would be a good candidate for a nice 500 hp budget build. Everything would need going through, but thats the kind of fun project that I enjoy. It's got the same amount of body rust that every project car of that era will have (cab corners, bed, etc) but its not too bad and the frame is solid. He came down to $2500 (without me mentioning price), and I think if I show up with cash and a trailer, I could get it for $2000. Nice price? !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

pdthedeuce > BJohnson11 08/28/2013 at 23:12

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I don't know about California , but here in Texas , if you can get a running , driving Squarebody that's not a rust bucket for 2k , that's a pretty good deal .

BJohnson11 > pdthedeuce 08/28/2013 at 23:14

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Yea. Running is a loose term. The engine cranks over and the guy says he started it every couple weeks (I think it's a wiring issue, the truck is filthy and it's gotta still be on it's original wiring harness). It's been sitting undriven for a couple years though. It'd be roadworthy with just a little work though.

pdthedeuce > BJohnson11 08/28/2013 at 23:18

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also , +1 for big block .

GhostZ > BJohnson11 08/29/2013 at 00:31

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Define "budget" 500HP build. 454's can make good power, but I am in serious doubt you can get it to rev reliably high enough (or hold boost) to get to that level without a lot of extra parts. Granted, if you're comparing it to a $15,000 crate motor, yeah, it's budget. I've just heard of people who think they can pull 500HP (net, BTW, not SAE) out of a 454 for $3000-$5000 and that's sort of ludicrous.

BJohnson11 > GhostZ 08/29/2013 at 00:38

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I haven't done too much researching into it, but I was bored at work and found a couple links to builds. With a few grand into parts though, 500 HP seems pretty attainable. Check this link out.

GhostZ > BJohnson11 08/29/2013 at 01:14

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Yeah, I've seen that link before. It's really similar to the "399 HP ford 5.0 $1000 build" that went around. The problems are A) they didn't run the engine with any accessories, B) placed custom headers that would cost a lot more to put on, optimized for their build, and not include it in the price. C) They had free access to expertise and a machine shop (and any other tool that normally costs money to use) and computer simulators D) they ran it for a very short time. E) ran it to about the safe max RPM for that motor, and then a little further. The 454's stroke is pretty long to be running it to 6500rpm on a stock bottom end.

I know with the ford build, they got huge criticism for the price on the cam and heads, which appeared to be 'dealer special' prices for new parts, and they were (supposedly) able to do a full cleaning and strength test job on the Ebay parts, and went through a few before they found ones that would work, and only counted those, none of which was included in the actual cost.

With accessories (10-20% drop w/ A/C, Alternator, Fan, etc.), decent (but non-custom) headers (which could mean a 10-20% difference in power, depending on how well they are suited to the cam, which I guarantee this magazine made sure of), and a more conservative tune to keep piston velocities and temperatures low, 400 usable crank HP (320-350 RWHP) for $3000 in parts is pretty reasonable as a goal, assuming you shell out for good headers and manage to get ebay parts safe and cheaply like they did.

Not to say you shouldn't go for big power, but the 454 is notorious for being an "advertised HP" engine that doesn't live up to its potential unless it's built professionally. Consider that it dropped from 400+ to like, 230HP in a few years when companies were starting to be forced to standardize their HP measurements due to the amount of HP inflation that was going on. Funny, because a lot of Pontiac and Oldsmobile engines from that same era actually made more power but were rated far lower so the 454 could shine.

I say go for it if you have the money and know what you're getting into. Just be smart and realistic about it, I recommend possibly trying out some engine simulators and doing some research ahead of time on differences between 454 blocks so you know exactly what you're working on. If you come in smart, you'll pull off a budget build. Get in too deep, you'll blow your budget or you'll blow your engine.

Me? I'd look into de-stroking it down to a 427 (don't call me crazy yet) and going with a very stable flat tappet or (better yet) solid cam for 5500 rpm, with good heads. That gets you about 50% of the way toward the build they had, but keeps the stress on the higher-RPM parts lower. Then, once you're confident in the reliability, you can look into heads, intake, and exhaust that match the cam you chose. So you'd have a period of slow, reliable driving, and then once you open it up (with a new carb for that intake, maybe EFI conversion) you'd have your 400-500HP at the crank.

My two cents! Take it for what it's worth! I just hate to see a jalop get upside-down on a project!

BJohnson11 > GhostZ 08/29/2013 at 01:22

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Good advice! While I worked in an engine shop for two years and have helped build my fair share of engines, I've never gone and spec'd out an engine build myself. I know Horsepower TV did a good build as well that seemed a lot more realistic (I believe it entailed stock heads/valvetrain, but with forged crank, piston, rods, and a new cam) and made something like 370 on a dyno.

I do agree the build in the link seems, sketchy, to say the least. Emphasis seemed to be on cheap power (read; heads, intake, carb, nitrous) and not on dependable power. I'd have to spec out a full build, but I was thinking more along the lines of forged internals first, then looking into the real power adders (heads, intake, carb).

I'll have to talk to my old engine machine shop as well. The engine shouldn't need any machine work done (Reman engine with only 400 miles on it), but I could always get some help on the build from my old boss.

And the de-stroking idea isn't crazy, just potentially more work to destroke it, then get all those parts in vs. getting upgraded internals to use as a solid foundation.

GhostZ > BJohnson11 08/29/2013 at 01:42

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From what I've heard (granted, not a Chevy guy, I know more about Fords, but engines are engines) the 454 can be de-stroked with a 427 crank, pistons, and rods. If you're going for forged internals, that would be the time to do it, because the good 427 parts are probably as easy to find as good 454 parts. Possibly look into a bore too, to regain some of those cubic inches since you're not using the stock pistons anyway. Just spec the whole thing out first, and find a process that makes it as smooth as possible to build in case things change halfway.

Good luck with whatever you do, if you do decide to buy this and build it.

BJohnson11 > GhostZ 08/29/2013 at 01:46

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Thanks. With what it is and all the engine work, that while optional, would be "necessary" (btw, the truck would be in no way a daily driver. More of a project muscle truck), do you think it's a good deal?

GhostZ > BJohnson11 08/29/2013 at 01:57

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It all depends on rust and transmission possibilities. If you want to stay automatic, you'd be pushing the limits of the TH400, I think they're rated to 450 ft/lbs. I'd make sure you beef it up a bit, or, if you want to go manual, look for a BW T-10 (4 speed) or (for more cost) a Tremec TKO 600 (4 w/overdrive). Both have rock-solid high torque reputations.

Let's say the rust is minimal (or just superficial) the engine works without much effort, and you can get ahold of the cheap parts you want. Talk the guy down to $2000. If you're willing to spend $10,000 (2,000 on the car, 8,000 on the build) for a tire-slaying muscle truck that, if you're willing to sacrifice reliability, could put down serious (500+) numbers with nitrous or forced induction later on? Yes. Totally worth it.

If it's not really your dream car or you're not ready to commit that much money (and a lot of time) to the project, then maybe you need to reconsider. Always be ready to walk away from a deal, more will come. Buy because you want to build and you know where to start, not because you're enamored with the car itself.